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The Nexus of Privacy
@thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange  ·  activity timestamp 6 days ago

Bluesky's role in the ATmosphere is somewhat analogous to Mastodon's in the Fediverse back in 2022: it's the biggest and best-known app, and gets almost all the press, but isn't the main source of innovation.

So when I look at the interesting stuff happening in the ATmosphere, it's Blacksky (creating intercommunal software with a strong mutual aid focus), Germ (E2EE messaging integrated with ATProto accounts), Aendra's XBlock labeler, Anisota (a reallllly different UI for microblogging), microcosm (refactoring the underlying architecture), the feed that Graze put together for the New York mayor's election ... etc etc. They're all experimental, adept at circumventing limitations, community-focused, self-driven. None of them are employed by Bluesky (EDIT: although a couple of them have gotten small grants froim Bluesky).

But just as people outside fedi tend to reduce it to Mastodon, people outside the ATmosphere tend to reduce it to Bluesky. And just as that leads people outside fedi to overlook all the interesting and promising things here (and irritates and marginalized everybody where who's working on stuff other than Mastodon), people in fedi wind up overlooking all the interesting and promising things happening in the ATmosphere (and irritate and marginalize everybody there who's working on stuff other than Bluesky). And that specifically includes some of the high-profile fedi influencers who have been especially hostile to the ATmosphere.

As for Bluesky PBC, no of course I don't trust them. They're a venture-funded startup, of course they're going to put their own interests first; they've shown they don't prioritize safety or community; etc etc etc. Then again, back in 2022 Mastodon gGmbH's was completely controlled by a BDFL who had a track record of putting Mastodon's instances first and not prioritizing safety and community. But just as Mastodon gGmbH's issues weren't the only thing going on in fedi as a whole back then, I don't see Bluesky PBC's issues as the only thing going on in the ATmosphere these days.

(Of course, Mastodon's recent organizational changes are very encouraging, and hopefully they'll start prioritizing safety and community and working to advance fedi's interests as a whole. Still, that hasn't happened yet, and they're still by far the largest platform and user base ... so let's not go patting ourselves on our collective back too hard on this front yet!)

@informapirata

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informapirata
@informapirata@activitypub.space replied  ·  activity timestamp 5 days ago

⁂ Article

Re: I also want to see #activitypub get some of the primitives that #atproto has such as decentralized identifiers (except for real), personal data stores, content addresses, etc.

Your analysis is very accurate and objectively correct.. However, there is an analogy that is not entirely relevant.

@thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange said in I also want to see #activitypub get some of the primitives that #atproto has such as decentralized identifiers (except for real), personal data stores, content addresses, etc.:

Bluesky's role in the ATmosphere is somewhat analogous to Mastodon's in the Fediverse back in 2022: it's the biggest and best-known app, and gets almost all the press, but isn't the main source of innovation.

In fact, 2022 doesn't correspond so precisely with the year 2025 for Bluesky.
Mastodon was six years old in 2022, and in those six years it gained its leadership by competing with equally structured or even much more structured alternative platforms like diaspora*, Friendica, Misskey, and, more recently, Lemmy, who proposed a different interaction model.
Throughout that period, Mastodon was never considered a leader by its "competitors," and often not even a point of reference.
This led to an evolution of the Fediverse ecosystem that was much more influenced by natural selection, and thanks to this natural selection and also thanks to the many dead branches, there is so much diversity.

I'm fairly certain that this diversity is the fundamental asset of the Fediverse, and that this asset will hardly ever be possessed by the Bluesky ecosystem.

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The Nexus of Privacy
@thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 6 days ago

Back to @captaincalliope.blue's original pointsin this thread:

I want a new flagship #atproto app that isn't a Twitter clone on the surface.

Indeed -- Rudy Fraser talked a lot about this in his ATmosphereConf presentation. And the same is true here in fedi, where Mastodon is still dominant. I think of this in a couple dimensions

  • getting beyond microblogging, but still skeumorphic to well-known centralized systems (Pixelfed and Lemmy here; Flashes, Skylight, and Streamplace in the ATmosphere). If done well, that's valiuable in terms of getting people to the ecosystem (from an activism perspective, the lack of a skeumorphic approximation to Facebook groups is a huge barrier) but my guess this is still likely to have somewhat limited impact. When was the last time when a better skeumorphic app ever really caught on and displaced an incumbent>

  • less-skeumorphic software is where it really gets exciting. There's a lot of momentum here -- Bonfire, Bandwagon, Piefed are three good examples here in fedi, the stuff Blacksky is working in the ATmosphere -- but it's very hard to predict what will and won't catch on.

"I also want to see #activitypub get some of the primitives that #atproto has such as decentralized identifiers (except for real), personal data stores, content addresses, etc.

I want to see both protocols cross-pollinate with each other's strengths. And perhaps share infrastructure like identities."

Yeah, totally agree. I think t here's been some cross-pollination in both directions (Blacksky's local-only posts were directly inspired by Hometown, Mastodon's FASP and Fedisovery are somewhat influenced by AT's Relay-based architecture) but there's certainly a lot of room for improvement.

Rudy's Blog

An internet of many autonomous communities

Making communities a true part of the protocol will encourage others to build things for those communities, start new communities, and hopefully foster models for self-sustainability.
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0xPsi
@oxpsi@mstdn.plus replied  ·  activity timestamp 5 days ago

curious how you imagine adding did-style identities + personal data stores to activitypub without breaking existing servers/clients – do you see it as an extension layer (like webfinger 2.0) or a more radical protocol rev?

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The Nexus of Privacy
@thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 days ago

@oxpsi I don't think either require a radical protocol rev. ActivityPods already uses Solid as the personal data store, and as @thisismissem pointed out broad adoption of ActivityPub C2S (perhaps with some improvements) would move things in a very PDS-like direction. Similarly for identity Forte and Mitra

For identity there are various implementations within ActivityPub that separate identity from the hosting instance. And as @thisismissem says elsewhere in this thread

"Also, technically the Decentralized Identifiers work is compatible with Actors in ActivityStreams 2.0, and that was a deliberate choice. Both use the alsoKnownAs property, and they use the same or an earlier version of the same security context in JSON-LD, and that was, I'm told, a deliberate design decision."

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